|
|
Post by Dr. Robert Gotcher on Apr 29, 2021 1:55:01 GMT
What do you think about my idea that we are entering into a time where there will be an increase in relative withdrawal from the world?
|
|
|
|
Post by Justin Spaeth on Apr 27, 2023 1:32:25 GMT
I totally agree. We are already seeing that in young women identifying as anything other than female, almost checking out of anything feminine. I recently watched Matt Fradd and Jason Evert. It is definitely worth a listen if you have the time. He goes into pornography and Instagram being big reasons why young girls are looking at what seems to be what is required of females these days. Its all really very sad! Guys are checking out in record numbers of the workforce as well. So many men are just checking out of work altogether and turning to videogames as a way to interact with the world, but still a withdrawal from reality. The whole pornography pandemic is really the start of the withdrawal if you ask me. It asks us to accept a cheap substitute for actual committed, sacred, married relationship. It's poison just seeps so far into rightly ordered life. Working from home is another way that I see people withdrawing from the world. It is one more step away from actual friendship or actual relationship with other co-workers. Humans are made to be social! We have so many social jobs (trades, nursing) that are going unfilled because they demand us to work with and communicate to others on a daily basis. All more signs of withdrawal from the world. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQq14ujm8wE&t=4221s |
|
|
|
Post by steveheun on Apr 30, 2023 23:39:09 GMT
You also see it in our attendance at Sunday Mass. Church attendance has been on a slow and steady decline in the U.S. for more than 30-40 years and the pandemic only accelerated that trend as people lost the habit of weekly attendance and connection with their pastoral leadership. They found it easier to sit on their couch and watch the mass while drinking coffee and eating their scones. They lost the connection to the Eucharistic as well as the fellowship of Catholics needed to maintain and support their faith and spiritual lives. It has become far too lose the discipline and relegate Jesus to the backburner. This withdrawing from the visible faith life is having detrimental effects on our culture and our communities. This is another way that our world is separating and losing its judeo-christian norms.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Lauterbach on May 2, 2023 18:57:33 GMT
We have been on this trend for a while now. I think COVID put it into overdrive. I don't like the fact that as this withdrawal persists, we will see a larger uptick in mental instability and illness. Man is a social creature and we need face to face personal contact. I remember when we sent all of our employees home when COVID hit and everyone was working from home except for our production and myself and my two fulfillment specialists, it was extremely lonely. I could call, set up meetings, attend meetings, but it was nothing like an in person visit. If this trend continues I am afraid our society will be in for a rocky road.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Doll on May 6, 2023 15:39:29 GMT
Yes I agree people are withdrawing from the world but the world is also rejecting them. They are told they don't need anything more than a smart phone to connect with others or a zoom meeting to get the work done. In most cases this does get the work done and you can interact with others. You however don't get the emotion or the laughter like when you are in person. You can laugh at something online but when you are by yourself it is a small chuckle. When you are in a group of people the laughter is contagious and things that are not necessary funny are hilarious. We all need these times of laughter to bring Joy in our lives with human contact. Now St. Benedict may disagree with me but I believe it is healthy to laugh.
The world rejecting people and people withdrawing from the world is a great plan of the evil one. If we are disconnected from each other we are less likely to connect with Jesus. I know this is the battle going on since the creation of man and will continue to the end of the world but that is why God is calling us to the Diaconate formation to connect with people to bring them back to the church one person at a time. One soul saved is worth the energy and time to do it. We may not all become deacons at the end of this process but we will all serve God in a different and better way.
|
|
marc
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by marc on May 6, 2023 20:04:29 GMT
I think there is evidence this is occurring in many ways. You guys already mentioned some. It seems like no one can get along anymore, individually or collectively. I think the withdrawal can be seen most obviously on the social front where we avoid person to person communications and socialize through media. The worst problems are affecting family. I think many are replacing regular normal human interactions for artificial ones. My grandparents are in their nineties and go down to scrabble club and bible study to meet and socialize with others. If I make to the senior living it might be logging in to play chess online, I don't know. Then again, on my drive home from work there seems to be plenty of cars in the bar parking lot on Fridays. Whatever it ends up looking like I believe we have a natural drive to connect with others and this requires involvement in the world of some kind, the means of this seem to just be trending in an unhealthier manner. As for Christians, I see it getting harder and harder so to avoid conflict many of us will also shy away from the world to our own 'safe' environments. Peace.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Robert Gotcher on May 8, 2023 2:21:02 GMT
Interestingly, I meant withdrawing from the world for a spiritual purpose, like the monks in the desert. You all took it in a different direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Lauterbach on May 9, 2023 1:00:56 GMT
Interestingly, I meant withdrawing from the world for a spiritual purpose, like the monks in the desert. You all took it in a different direction. Do you think we are becoming more Spiritual? I think we defaulted to physical interaction withdrawal because it is very prevalent in our society. I do not get the impression that people are becoming more Spiritual. |
|
|
|
Post by John Schroeder on May 9, 2023 12:13:53 GMT
I'm jumping in on this late, but I see signs of hope. There's an order of sisters in Green Bay, nuns in Prairie du Sac, and the Schoenstatt sisters- all continue to maintain or are growing. The archdiocese has been growing with seminarians. I'll have to admit on the spiritual front in other places it's not so rosy. Family in Chicago have experienced more church consolidation than we have.
On the social front the bars and restaurants seem to be packed despite gas being expensive (when it hit $4+/gal in 2010- it was rough for all restaurants) and food costs going through the roof. A friend of mine in Peoria Illinois has 4 restaurants and has been doing very well despite everything. Close to home, our kids and their cousins never hesitate joining together for family gatherings.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Robert Gotcher on May 15, 2023 12:59:16 GMT
Has anyone read or is familiar with Rod Dreher's The Benedict Option? That is what I'm talking about.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnvanhecke on May 16, 2023 2:09:02 GMT
I see and agree with Justin and many of the individual comments here. But I’m also seeing the opposite. (People are free to be different-yay!!) in the young adult community in Milwaukee. There seems to be a spring time of community and activity which is incredibly encouraging. In fact, it seems to be even large steps ahead of where it has been for my whole adult lifetime. They not only meet at Cors Jesu EVERY Wednesday night in Shorewood for a night of confession, exposition, and mass. But they seem to have frequent events and get together‘s from small poetry/writers groups to Frisbee to game nights to jam sessions to bar nights. Frankly, it’s a scene that might have intimidated me as an introvert, and yet I am amazed and happy to see that it is happening in ever greater richness right here in Milwaukee. In fact, Milwaukee is getting a nationwide reputation because of this very activity. We have seen people move from other states, including both coasts to Milwaukee to be part of this scene. I would like to think that this is the beginning of Springtime and the opposite of withdrawing. The spirit will not give up on the church!
|
|
jan
New Member
Posts: 9
|
Post by jan on May 29, 2023 1:35:02 GMT
Am familiar w Dreher's BO. I am sympathetic, if not leaning toward a withdrawal from the world. I believe it will be necessary for faithful Catholics to withdraw, ramping up sometime in our children's lives, to varying degrees. This culture has abdicated much independence, willingly, by the easy acceptance and usage of tracing technology. Few people think thru this fragile situation. This fragility can be seen if you ask folks to put down their cell phones and carry on w their day. Ask them to call their friends on a phone other than their mobile. Ask them to drive somewhere. Ask them for $10 cash. Each of these things seems small, but in sum they form a creeping net over large parts of peoples lives. Think too of the Ring device and software on your front door. This is info sent somewhere, to someone for some reason over which that camera "owner" has neither idea nor control. What's the big deal?, you may say. "If I don't do anything wrong, where's the worry?" The worry is that a life fully informed by Catholic truth will eventually and inevitably run contrary to the designs of the people who sit on the other side of your phones. Check out China for a scenario coming to a city near you. A cursory look into how China treats Catholics will be a good start. The ruling power there know that Catholic truth confronts and calls out the oppressive nature of power. That oppressive quality is here, in this fine land, to a degree far greater than most folks know, or are willing to admit. There is, for someone fully invested in the cell phone culture, no privacy. Your phone is a miniature megaphone of your whereabouts and runabouts. John the Evangelist tells us: "Do not wonder, brethren, that the world hates you." (1 Jn 3.13) ...Why? because they, like Cain recognize their own deeds as evil, recognize the faithful's deeds as righteous, and will seek to eliminate the "cognitive dissonance". So, faithful Catholics will have targets on their backs from power sources.
This doesn't even address the cultural corrosion so pervasive. A thoughtful person, intent on a life aiming at sanctity has to withdraw. The cultural atmosphere has been contaminated at almost every interstice of life. Much Catholic truth is mocked, erased and inverted, whether it be masculinity, sexuality, sense of sacrifice for good, self-restraint, love of beauty, love of truth. If we think we can endure this, stay. But if not, one must withdraw. What is really given up if we do?
That is a big question for this space, Dr Gotcher. Thanks for teeing it up.
|
|
