|
|
Post by Dr. Robert Gotcher on Jun 17, 2021 0:56:04 GMT
What would you say to someone who said we didn’t need devotion to Mary to be saved?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rene Rillorta on Jun 7, 2023 4:40:20 GMT
I will say, the greatest gift God gave us was His only begotten Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and this precious gift He sent by way of our Blessed Mother. So, isn't it more logical to convey our gratitude and thanks to our God by way of Mary? The very salvation we received came by Mary's Fiat. Mary was the first disciple of Christ, she was the one Jesus was referring to when he said " my mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and keep it" (Luke 8:21) Even our Lord performed His first miracle by way of Mary at the wedding of Cana.
Devotion to Mary is actually a way of obeying the 4rth Commandment-"Honor your Father, and your Mother"
My anecdotal observation which is shared by many is that, those who have devotion to Mary are the ones who are actually blessed to be an authentic followers of Christ who was Himself devoted to her mother. It is sadly bordering on arrogance to declare there is no need for devotion to Mary in order to be saved because salvation, I repeat came by way of Mary.
Mary said "do whatever He tells you" (Jn 2:5) Jesus said "The Father and I are One" (Jn 10:30) God the Father said " Honor Thy Father and Mother" (Ex 20:12) Jesus said " Woman, behold your Son, then to His disciple- Behold, your Mother" . Who am I to nit pick on what to obey? "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished" Mt 5:18.
St Louis Marie de Montfort said " the surest and easiest way to attain salvation is by way of Mary" . I think by other way it's 50/50 like St Dimas vs. Hestas...But then again, there is a mystical story wherein during the flight to Egypt, a band of thieves that the Holy Family came across with became good to them, they had with them a sickly child, whom the Blessed Mother offered to bath using baby Jesus' bath water. The boy was healed! and the boy was the young St Dismas....If this is not hogwash, then St Dismas vs Hestas was 100% by way of Mary for the former, and 0% without Mary for Hestas.... Same with St. Peter vs Judas....Peter ran to Mary and was saved,,, Judas ran away and was not...
|
|
jan
New Member
Posts: 9
|
Post by jan on Jun 11, 2023 20:46:29 GMT
I would say they don't well understand salvation. Dismissal or disregard of Mary's role in salvation is often the product of enlightenment thinking that tends to reduce reality to binaries. They (protestants) will usually point to 1 Tim 2.5 ("there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus") and eliminate all other persons in the reality of anyone's salvation. But they would have a hard time explaining away the preacher (a type of mediator) through whom they heard the Word preached, ie Rom 10.14 ("But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?) Christ is certainly the principle, final or ultimate mediator, but God dispenses the graces of Salvation through many others, chiefly Mary, the living Ark.
A second way to look at Mary's necessity in salvation might be to consider the earth. An analogy to Mary's necessity in salvation is the earth, literally the soil, and its role in producing the food that sustains our bodies. Without the soil, life is impossible. Yet we don't consume it, and at the same time, if we disregard it, or dismiss it, it will lose its capacity to produce that which we need. Neglected ground can, in few cases, produce something of value, but usually not...it becomes a wasteland. Caring for or well tending the earth allows it to unleash its inherent power to produce the stuff of life. In a similar way, tending to Mary allows us to enter into the fulness of Salvation: her Son.
In addition, if salvation comes thru the Church, the body of Christ (extra ecclesiam, nulla salus), then Mary's role becomes crystal clear: the Body of Christ received its body from Mary. The Church was Marian before it was Petrine. First in her Fiat, second in the flesh of her body called Jesus. We can't fully know Christ apart from His mother any more than we can another human apart from their parents. Not knowing Christ is not knowing salvation. Mary helps us know Christ.
True salvation is also bound to humility. If I really don't believe my soul requires salvation, how can I be saved? As such, de Montfort suggests that "to draw near to His Holiness directly, and without any recommendation, is to fail in humility" (True Devotion, Chap 2, para 83). It is a profound hubris to assert that solo and unaided I may come into the precincts of the Creator and Redeemer. Yes, He will receive those who come to Him in faith, but even there, that is a consequence of being drawn to Him (cf Jn 6.43-44). Without mediation, it is impossible to come to the Father....and the best mediator, the best advocate is She who has known him longer than anyone: Mary.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Schroeder on Jun 13, 2023 3:13:06 GMT
I have such a friend, and he's Catholic in fact. First off, every human being with this idea is unique, so if I were trying to be persuasive, which I no longer handcuff myself to being, and even if just trying to present truths of the faith, I begin with the scene at the cross (John 19:26-27) "When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold your son!" The he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother! And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home." That passage says a lot. Even for Catholic's, who may have heard from their protestant friends that devotion to Mary is heretical, I ask the questions: Why does Jesus make this statement to Mary emphatically? Why to John the same way? Why with an exclamation! There must be a sound reason(s). And I might remind them, Jesus never says to John, take care of my mother from here on out. He said "Behold, your mother! The part that's highly intriguing is that John takes Mary to his home.
I remind anyone that the Catholic Church is the authority given to the world to teach faith and morals as given Her the mandate by Jesus Christ, to help all people get to heaven. So back to the passage above. Why was it that John understood he should take Mary to his home? I would take the opportunity to remind the listener "aren't we Jesus' brother and sister, literally adopted by baptism? What did Jesus say: Who is my brother, my sister and my mother? Those who do the will of my Father in heaven. In another passage after the resurrection he says, "I am going to my father and your Father, to my God and your God." I would question do we take all these facts seriously??? If we are brothers and sisters by adoption, why is it that we all don't invite Mary to stay with us? The Schoenstatt spirituality does emphasize this aspect of the faith very nicely: We should consecrate ourselves to our Lady and invite her into our homes when we dedicate our home shrine. And what's more they encourage us to give Mary all our daily cares and problems with complete trust for her to solve with her son, Jesus. Does this not make all the sense in the world?? We invite our earthly mothers to come stay with us when we have a first child for example. Why should it be so foreign to invite our Blessed Mother to live with us as she lived with Elizabeth, but not just for three months but always.
Saints like St. Louis de Montfort teach "to Jesus through Mary"? Why? Because he says it's the easiest way to Jesus and heaven and it makes all the sense in the world. Chapter 2 in True Devotion to Mary teaches us that we are born into a sinful world. Our souls are soiled as it were because of original sin. Anything we present or propose to God in prayer has 'dirty finger prints' all over it as it were because we see and understand and petition in a sinful state of grace, meaning while in the state of grace, we still do not see things perfectly but rather in a distorted way. We can pray directly to God and perhaps have bits and pieces that may be acceptable to him to act upon. But if we would rather work quicker for our salvation and easier, we can petition our spiritual mother in heaven who sees our prayers and their defects and is able to clean them up and present them to God properly for the strongest benefit to us, her children. All St. Louis is proposing is what other saints passed down to him and what he's experienced. I echo his sentiments! I've experienced profound consolations and miracles during this journey through the diaconate and feel the same thing. Why wouldn't anyone be open to St. Louis' First Truth: that the object of any devotion, has to be Jesus Christ. He draws us with honey saying Mary offers us the fastest and easiest path. Why would one not consider his proposal? I certainly did and am glad to say I did! And not only his proposal, but many other saints!
|
|
