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Post by Dr. Robert Gotcher on Jul 9, 2021 1:38:34 GMT
What does it mean to go under a temptation rather than surmount it?
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Post by Rene Rillorta on Jun 20, 2023 5:01:07 GMT
I hope I do not misinterpret this question but here I remember St Francis De Sales who said: “God permits, violent, assaults, only in souls, whom he desires to raise up to his own, pure and surpassing love by strong Temptations God, declares that he wants to make you great in his sight, but you must always be humble and self fearful”
Then he continues to teach about the four ways of combat when under temptation, namely uniting ourselves to the crucified Christ, by running away from temptation like running from a wolf, by exposing the temptation to a spiritual director, and by doing some actions contrary to the temptation.
There is benefit with being under temptation for we become purified:
1 Peter 1:7
These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
Being under temptation, we develop our ability to resist what is not of God and to enable our free will to always choose Him thereby making us reach and achieve virtues that without otherwise we will not develop.
Strength in virtues can only be achieved by resistance under temptation the way muscles are strengthened only by way of resistance training.
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Post by dylanmchugh on Jul 6, 2023 16:12:57 GMT
What does it mean to go under temptation rather than surmount it?
In Catholic theology, going under temptation refers to yielding to the temptations as a part of our fallen nature. While one seeks to avoid near occasions of sin, one realizes that the elimination of temptation altogether is impossible. The Catechism states, "The Holy Spirit makes us discern between trials, which are necessary for the growth of the inner man, and temptation, which leads to sin and death. We must also discern between being tempted and consenting to temptation. Finally, discernment unmasks the lie of temptation, whose object appears to be good, a "delight to the eyes" and desirable, when in reality its fruit is death" (CCC 2847). Therefore, temptation is not a sin in and of itself, but rather consenting to the temptation is when it becomes sin. The Catechism also differentiates temptation from trial, the latter of which is "necessary" for our spiritual growth because it allows us the opportunity to carry the cross. "Going under temptation" means accepting the cross of our concupiscence - the inclination to sin. This is notably different than saying "all bets are off, I am fallen, therefore I am destined to sin". This defeatist attitude flies in the face of Catholic teaching, and most egregiously contradicts Jesus' willingness to bear his cross and his call for us to bear our crosses as well.
Surmounting temptation, on the other hand, takes a posture of individual supremacy. By convincing oneself that one is above temptation is to deny our existence as fallen human beings and is therefore sinful in and of itself. I believe that the phrase "surmounting temptation" means denying the inevitable crosses we are meant to bear - an attempt to live a life of comfort in the flesh as opposed to trials of the spirit.
"The woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and the tree was desirable for gaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it" (Genesis 3:6). Another element of our human condition is our ability to convince ourselves that what we are doing is not actually wrong. Whether this temptation comes from within or an external source, surmounting temptation can also mean putting ourselves about the laws of God, convincing ourselves that our actions are justified so we avoid culpability for our actions.
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Post by Chris Lauterbach on Jul 9, 2023 19:47:26 GMT
In the context of St Therese of Liseux, I think that by going under temptation she is accepting the fact that she is not perfect, nor are we. We will not always be able to tower over and defeat all the challenges that come our way. Part of suffering and abandonment to God is acknowledging that we will have times where we have to submit and weather the storms that come, our lives, and trials are not always going to be battles that we have to defeat with a clear cut victory. This is not as simple as win or lose.
St Therese knew that in her pathway to God, there will be trials and suffering. But she also knew that by devoting her life to Christ, that even though there will be times of trial, she advises us to weather those storms. Our lives may seem difficult now, but if we focus on doing everything for the love of God, we will triumph and be with God in heaven. I think her point is that if we have a few scrapes and bruises now, in the end it will be in our best interest to get closer to God.
Her "little way" approach of understanding God's call resonates here. She was so beholden to God, she realized that only way to get closer and achieve spiritual marriage was total abandonment. In that context it makes perfect sense that her approach to struggles was not by dominating and surmounting, but by being passive and putting trust in God.
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Post by John Schroeder on Jul 11, 2023 1:24:22 GMT
What does it mean to go under a temptation rather than surmount it?
To surmount sin would be to overcome it (various and many ways can be involved). But to go under temptation is a tough question. Maybe Psalm 37:5 has an answer: "Commit your way to the Lord, trust in Him, and He will act." Another way of phrasing that line: "Surrender to the Lord and He will do everything for you." I think that any Catholic who struggles with certain repeated sins can take solace in Psalm 37:5 in that it can be discouraging to "firmly resolve with the help of thy (God's) grace to confess my sins, do penance and amend my life" and continue to "fail" in recommitting venial or mortal sins. Psalm 37:5 reminds us that maybe we should give God our best daily and accept the fact that he will win that battle for us in our soul. Turn it over to him if some type of sin flummoxes you. He will win the battle. Just surrender, just trust. He will fight for us.
Jean-Pierre de Caussade in Abandonment to Divine Providence, writes 'To escape the distress caused by regret for the past or fear about the future, this is the rule to follow: leave the past to the infinite Mercy of God, the future to His good Providence, give the present wholly to His love by being faithful to His grace.' Temptations happen constantly and it's the devils work to discourage and accuse in order to dispirit a soul. Caussade's answer is to abandon trust in yourself. All trust should be in God. He will win the victory for us.
A priest gave a homily today about how we excuse ourselves in order to sin. We rationalize, we give ourselves an out as to why what we say or do is not really a sin. I met him in confession and told him I did just as he explained. I found a supposed reason why what I was doing was not a sin. I told him I struggle blah blah blah. He said it's good that it's a struggle. Struggles can make us stronger(spiritually) if we really work against them. It doesn't mean we won't lose. It is also like playing a game, we build muscle memory and memory to outsmart an opponent we've played multiple times. Hopefully we improve to outsmart our opponent. We shouldn't be discouraged in going against a spiritual opponent whom God allows to test us. We do need to be patient, begging God to help us understand His ways, knowing full well we'll not be perfect in this life. God knows that of course, so let God fight the fight. Abandonment to divine providence is not a copout. It acknowledges God's protection. I tend to think now that God really wants me to pause before any act about which my guardian angel forewarns me. He warns me often.
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Post by Rich Fedor on Jul 17, 2023 17:46:17 GMT
To me, this means that there are times that we are to endure temptation rather than avoid it. We are called to be in the world. The world is full of temptation. It would be impossible to avoid all temptation. Jesus did not avoid all temptation. He endured the temptations of the devil when he was in the desert. Being all powerful, He could have avoided the whole situation, but he endured and persevered. This is an example for us to realize, that even at our weakest moments, we can get through whatever the devil comes at us with as long as we rely on our faith in God.
Jesus tells us in Matthew 18:7 that it is necessary that temptations come (RSV-CE). St Paul tells us in 1Conrinthians 10:13 that God will not let us be tempted beyond our strength and will provide a way through so that we will be able to endure it (RSV-CE). Peter tells us in his first letter that our faith shall be tested by fire (1Peter 1:7).
As we endure these temptations, or trials, our faith is strengthened. When the smith puts metal in the fire and beats on it with a hammer, the metal endures much stress. As the smith does this work, the metal is shaped and formed to his liking. The smith then quenches the metal in oil which cools and hardens the metal and gives it strength. Then the smith grinds the metal to further refine it and shape it to be the functional tool that it is meant to be. Sometimes in this process the metal wants to warp or move in a way that the smith does not intend. When this happens, the smith puts it back to the fire and works on it some more.
Now this process could be avoided and the piece of metal could be left in a pile with other pieces of metal and never become something great and useful. But that is not what the smith intended for the piece of metal. Similarly, that is not what God intends for us. He intends for us to be disciples and to be forged into saints. We cannot become what God intends for us unless He forms us and shapes us to His liking. There are times that this is not going to be easy (like Diaconate formation perhaps). I think that is what St Terese is getting at later in this quote when she says, "we have simply to suffer the showers". Temptation will come upon us and always be around us. We must have the fortitude to endure so that we may come out the other side as He desires us to.
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